Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

abolish all labels to reach your full potential

Question...... Tulpa systems are endo systems right? And aren't endo systems very looked down upon? In my case I accidentally summoned my tulpas, so I thought I was an osdd-1b system (I'm obviously not) and it's been really rough until this point of finding this label...so I didn't choose to be a system, but it's not caused due to trauma. I think system is a term for non-endo systems, and collective is for endo 'systems'? Correct me if I'm wrong I feel nervous I could be invalidating an entire community with a horrible life ruining disorder that they cannot control

@spency - jump it's nice of you that you are cautious about hurting other people, but as a person with did i think that nothing of what you said is invalidating. "system" in psychology is a term for even what you would call a singlet, so you are not appropriating anything

Oh okay that's good to hear :) thank you so much for answering!!! I think I'll still call it a collective, but it's good to know this :))

spency

Question...... Tulpa systems are endo systems right? And aren't endo systems very looked down upon? In my case I accidentally summoned my tulpas, so I thought I was an osdd-1b system (I'm obviously not) and it's been really rough until this point of finding this label...so I didn't choose to be a system, but it's not caused due to trauma. I think system is a term for non-endo systems, and collective is for endo 'systems'? Correct me if I'm wrong I feel nervous I could be invalidating an entire community with a horrible life ruining disorder that they cannot control

I'm part of a OSDD-1B system and I say you are valid no matter your origin (edited)

7:03 PM

Don't let the trash part of the plural community stop you from showing what you are /lh (edited)

:'))) thank you <333 this makes me feel so much more validated

1

i dont see a reason for anyone to be "invalid", i dont get it

if im not wrong endo just means non-traumatic. Why would not having trauma invalidate someone or make someone be looked down upon? And this is tulpa.info we are mostly tulpa systems here so just like you...

There's a very large group of people, mainly people with OSDDID dedicated to saying any multiple identity experience without trauma is fake and anyone claiming it is evil and should literally die. Tulpamancy groups don't often run into them because we developed outside the toxic shit hole people call the plural community. This barrier between the communities is slowly disappearing though so more people are getting involved in that shit

Dawn 🕯

There's a very large group of people, mainly people with OSDDID dedicated to saying any multiple identity experience without trauma is fake and anyone claiming it is evil and should literally die. Tulpamancy groups don't often run into them because we developed outside the toxic shit hole people call the plural community. This barrier between the communities is slowly disappearing though so more people are getting involved in that shit

well thats mean and nonsense! Why would someone do that?

4:09 PM

I can get that they think we are lying to get attention (or something similar) but still... (edited)

well thats mean and nonsense! Why would someone do that?

@Katie - jump Too much free time

Because they're usually either legit assholes who are looking for a new group to harrass (r/systemcringe) or are traumatized disordered systems who are lashing out for various reasons and inflicting their pain on others. It's a long and tediously complex situation and what I've posted is really dumbed down. Needless to say though it's toxic as hell for all involved

Those groups tend to raid pro-endo servers too

4:19 PM

I'm in a lot of those servers and, due to those raids, they have to implement strict rules to verify new people (edited)

It’s a bunch of uneducated people that don’t understand what tulpamancy is and think we are actively trying to have the severe mental illness that is hurting them. They believe that we think you can have alters without trauma when in reality I’ve never met anyone who thinks that. It is an unchallenged fact that alters requires trauma and no one here is labeling tulpas as alters. (edited)

4:31 PM

Also a lot of our language and completely misleading descriptions are not helping

4:32 PM

We can’t co exist and should not be invading each other’s spaces. There is no point in talking to them, they won’t change their mind and it causes stress to everyone involved with no benefit

4:33 PM

If a DID system wants to come to us and listen and co exist with us that’s fine but there should not be an active attempt to co mingle

Dawn 🕯

Because they're usually either legit assholes who are looking for a new group to harrass (r/systemcringe) or are traumatized disordered systems who are lashing out for various reasons and inflicting their pain on others. It's a long and tediously complex situation and what I've posted is really dumbed down. Needless to say though it's toxic as hell for all involved

Supporting endogenics is "spreading missinformation about DID" apparently lol

Oh crap this is triggering as hell

since this is a channel dedicated to tulpamancy questions, shouldn't we stop this subject?

Nah I think it’s fine

4:47 PM

I guess tulpa discussion is better

Indeed

DID spaces think endo=alters without trauma because they won’t recognize any other type of thoughtform other than alter

4:49 PM

So they call everything a fake alter rather than what it is

4:50 PM

If you label everything as an alter or not an alter you can’t really have any opinion on anything else. You can’t have an opinion of tulpas if you just see them as fake alters because they aren’t trying to be alters.

so many ways to feel invalidated

and none of them make sense!

Exactly

4:51 PM

Alter is just a label for someone inside our head for us Not matter their origin

I get being mad about it but I cannot understand how they’d think someone else faking DID somehow removes their experience with DID and invalidates them. Sit in your own corner

technically an alter must be traumagenic and have some specific behaviors/properties

4:53 PM

but non-traumagenic (endogenic) headmates exist and can have very different kinds of properties from my experience (edited)

You can’t really pinpoint an extract definition for all types of thought forms. People will use “a headmate formed by trauma” for alter but Error is very much not an alter and also very much formed from trauma

so its a bit dumb to try and simplify it to a yes/no thing

technically an alter must be traumagenic and have some specific behaviors/properties

@Katie - jump Another rule that traumagrnic gatekeepers put in place? Im not surprised /nay

Mia (she/her) | 🎨

technically an alter must be traumagenic and have some specific behaviors/properties

@Katie - jump Another rule that traumagrnic gatekeepers put in place? Im not surprised /nay

no, thats just the technical term in psycology if im not wrong

Hell, he even went through that whole “persecutor to protector” shit DID systems talk about. Still very much not an alter.

Rusty

Hell, he even went through that whole “persecutor to protector” shit DID systems talk about. Still very much not an alter.

whaat? what is that?

DID systems sometimes have an alter that actively harms the system. They may even take the form and name of a real abuser in their life

ugh, thats creepy

4:56 PM

and would that not be an "alter"?

It is an alter

"Still very much not an alter." what did this meant then?

Oh I was pointing out that Error checks a ton of alter boxes but he’s still not an alter so it’s very hard to have a list of things for each term and put everyone into those labels

aaah, yeah, thats why i said its dumb to put it into a yes/no thing and say that anything that doesnt have the exact same properties than what you experience is fake

He’s not an alter because we have no DID symptoms but if you looked at him and nothing else people would probably label him as such

Hell, he even went through that whole “persecutor to protector” shit DID systems talk about. Still very much not an alter.

@Rusty - jump from my perspective all error does externally is protection so i do give him credit

You know some people out there would probably swear up and down I absolutely have DID

5:14 PM

Purely because Error sometimes causes me distress

And they will do so without even reading the symptoms of DID

5:15 PM

a lot of people just thinks "multiple personality=>DID" and thats it, and its normal, you cannot know everything (edited)

5:16 PM

not everyone knows the technical definition of DID

Yeah pretty much but I’ve had even tulpa community people think distress was enough to call a headmate an alter.

So what makes them an alter? (edited)

Having DID

it's not about reading the symptoms of did but people not even considering differential diagnosis. i don't think error is an alter but i don't think him being a tulpa stops him acting like a persecutor/protector, it's just a label for behaviour

Rusty

Having DID

well thats a circular definition

definitions should only matter in medical context, outside of it it's just source of disagreements

by definition (if im not wrong) did headmates are alters and if you have alters it must be did

Leiko

definitions should only matter in medical context, outside of it it's just source of disagreements

i agree! what im saying its that saying "having did makes your headmate an alter" is like saying nothing (idk if a did system can have non-alters)

Rusty

Having DID

alters have certain properties, wich are just the symptoms of DID, so if you have an alter then you have did

that's why i don't like the conversation about labels in general, people just identify with it too much and just feel invalidated or angry when someone disagrees with how the label should be used

alters have certain properties, wich are just the symptoms of DID, so if you have an alter then you have did

@Katie - jump or OSDD-1

C. | ☕

alters have certain properties, wich are just the symptoms of DID, so if you have an alter then you have did

@Katie - jump or OSDD-1

idk if osdd-1 headmates are technically alters, im just going by the limited information ive read in this chats, so when i say alter i just mean did-alter

personally i think "did", "osdd", "alters" and other terms should only be considered by the doctor during the treatment

Leiko

that's why i don't like the conversation about labels in general, people just identify with it too much and just feel invalidated or angry when someone disagrees with how the label should be used

yeah, i get it

i think that this kinds of conversations can be talked about if people just dont get more attached to definitions than to beeing nice tho (edited)

mhm

?

5:27 PM

like, i was talking just for the sake of talking, about labels or whatever, it doesnt matter

as in m-hmm

love the definition of "mhm"

5:28 PM

hahaha

People who don't support endo systems believe that all endo systems 'choose' to be a system, when in reality did/osdd systems have a life altering horrible disorder that causes lots of distress for life usually, caused by horrible trauma. In my case, I accidentally summoned my tulpa headmates so I didn't choose to have them, and I do feel I have had a trauma formed headmate so yeah (edited)

8:54 AM

I feel like endo systems shouldn't be looked down upon, but instead the people who outright fake it and pretend to have it (when it's clear it's for rp or sm yk?)

Endo systems aren’t typically formed from trauma or seen as a life altering horrible disorder. Endo systems aren’t disordered. If you are, you are a form of DID system.

Yeah that's the point I was making

8:55 AM

./lh

8:56 AM

Oh my bad j worded it wrng

In the ye olden days …of 2013, I recall some endo systems pointing to the research done for the DSM-V on how like.. 5% or 8% of DID systems did not experience abuse (some experienced other traumatic events; half of all children will experience at least one traumatic event before they are adults). They claimed that that as proof of endo systems being real

8:51 PM

And there’s technically this whole second theory of dissociation and by extension DID that people with DID hate and never talk about called the sociocognitive model

8:52 PM

(They model they prefer is the trauma model, for what should be obvious reasons (see: 95% of people with DID suffered from child abuse))

Endo systems aren’t typically formed from trauma or seen as a life altering horrible disorder. Endo systems aren’t disordered. If you are, you are a form of DID system.

@Rusty - jump not tipically but never, by definition, they cannot possibly be.

wait no, endo is internal, so if you cause yourself trauma it could be possible i guess

I believe the definition of DID does not include trauma - you can meet the symptoms regardless of background

but its a bit of a stretch

The "official" DSM definition everyone goes quoting at least.

Reguile

I believe the definition of DID does not include trauma - you can meet the symptoms regardless of background

but you always have trauma with DID if im not wrong

9:03 PM

like, there is no documented case of DID without trauma

It's a mental illness, so if it's DID often just depends on the person diagnosing you and it's fuzzy - I'm guessing there are many cases without trauma.

9:04 PM

In order for it to never happen it would have to be in the definition - - - to my knowledge

Rusty

Endo systems aren’t typically formed from trauma or seen as a life altering horrible disorder. Endo systems aren’t disordered. If you are, you are a form of DID system.

you need memory barriers for did for example

And a lot of the early DID people giving diagnosis were the sort to also do the whole satanic-panic false memory stuff, so a lot of the history of a hard DID-trauma connection are very squirrley (edited)

This is a very old slap fight within psychology. There are a surprising amount of therapists (but not the majority) who believe that DID can be caused by therapy or induced by therapy. There are also a lot (but they are also not the majority) who believe in the sociocognitive theory of dissociation

Reguile

In order for it to never happen it would have to be in the definition - - - to my knowledge

or have a crazy good correlation

The majority of psychologists you talk to - especially ones who specifically work with people with DID - will tell you the trauma theory

Reguile

And a lot of the early DID people giving diagnosis were the sort to also do the whole satanic-panic false memory stuff, so a lot of the history of a hard DID-trauma connection are very squirrley (edited)

i understood 0 of that sentence

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/06/us/memory-therapy-leads-to-a-lawsuit-and-big-settlement.html